Corps to use more lethal ammo in Afghanistan

[Secpro]

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/02/marine_SOST_ammo_021510w/

[lino]

nice read..

[Chris]

Give me a break!

Quote from the article
Legal concerns
Before the SOST round could be fielded by the Corps, it had to clear a legal hurdle: approval that it met international law of war standards.

The process is standard for new weapons and weapons systems, but it took on added significance because of the bullet’s design. Open-tip bullets have been approved for use by U.S. forces for decades, but are sometimes confused with hollow-point rounds, which expand in human tissue after impact, causing unnecessary suffering, according to widely accepted international treaties signed following the Hague peace conventions held in the Netherlands in 1899 and 1907.

“We need to be very clear in drawing this distinction: This is not a hollow-point round, which is not permitted,” Brogan said. “It has been through law of land warfare review and has passed that review so that it meets the criteria of not causing unnecessary pain and suffering.”





“unnecessary suffering” and “superfluous injury”
Thats just comical to me

[JaxChris]

Correct, and that is why I was confused when C3PO told me I was wrong that the military used HP bullets - they don't.

Anything that is considered good for self defense or police use is not allowed by the Geneva convention. But hey, claymore's are banned but we still train to use them. =)

World war standards dictate that bullets must only injury or kill and cannot be used to torture an enemy intentionally. So, the US plays it safe and fields mostly casualty rounds while the special forces get the kill rounds.

The US military for a long time considered 55gr the casualty round and the 62gr the kill round. Now all 5.56 except for the 75gr SPC round considered casualty and 7.62 are kill rounds. The 75gr 5.56 rounds made by Black Hills are the preferred SOCOM round for special operations now because all of the 7.62 weapon systems are too heavy compared to 5.56 weapons, where fast and light is a critical requirement.

[Satan_3pc]

What's the difference between a bullet that tortures and a bullet that injures or kills? They all injure! And if the wound is not treated you die! Idiocy. If they want the rounds to injure or kill what's wrong with good self defense rounds. They kill real good.

Everything is always politics and money. Disgusting.

[Secpro]

I figured one of you would jum on that! It's war god damn it! Shoot there ass with everything we got. Kill rounds work wonders! Less damn ammo wasted in a fire fight.

[Satan_3pc]

The Generals and pencil pushers figure if a round injures and 2 or 3 bad guys have to carry the injured, that's 3 bad guys gone. What's happens when our guy has to take someone out ASAP or it's his ass?

[Secpro]

The Generals and pencil pushers figure if a round injures and 2 or 3 bad guys have to carry the injured, that's 3 bad guys gone. What's happens when our guy has to take someone out ASAP or it's his ass?

I think its more of the pencil pushers. I've met some retired General's and the shit they have to go through to take care of there people is rediculous! Half the time they still end up nowhere.

[JaxChris]

The US is the only fighting force with an actual mandate of "leave no man behind", which requires us to pull our wounded off the battlefield. All the other nations ignore the wounded until the fight is over. So the logic behind the reasons is seriously flawed and always has been.

Instead, the enemy now leaves their wounded out there while retreating because they hope if the wounded soldier survives they can ambush a couple of our troops as we advance. Now 2 of our guys died for not watching their ankles during an advance because our rounds don't rip holes through people.

We need 50 BMG bullets in a shorter cartridge that makes them easier to field in an AR-10 sized weapon. Give them soft hollow points and let them rain on the battlefield. Anything out to 500 yards should be dead.

[Secpro]

The US is the only fighting force with an actual mandate of "leave no man behind", which requires us to pull our wounded off the battlefield. All the other nations ignore the wounded until the fight is over. So the logic behind the reasons is seriously flawed and always has been.

Instead, the enemy now leaves their wounded out there while retreating because they hope if the wounded soldier survives they can ambush a couple of our troops as we advance. Now 2 of our guys died for not watching their ankles during an advance because our rounds don't rip holes through people.

We need 50 BMG bullets in a shorter cartridge that makes them easier to field in an AR-10 sized weapon. Give them soft hollow points and let them rain on the battlefield. Anything out to 500 yards should be dead.

We're the only nation that has a gov of pussies also. Our gov is the only one that adheres to the nicities of war.
Where was the Geneva convention when our female soldiers were being raped and males decapitated at the hands of these fuck bags in Iraq?

[JaxChris]

No, there are plenty of countries sissier than us... they have so many rules that they don't fight at all and preach non-violence because they don't know how to attack or defend anymore. (i.e. Sweden, Switzerland, New Zealand, most of Canada, Iceland, France, Luxembourg, Denmark)

[Satan_3pc]

We need 50 BMG bullets in a shorter cartridge that makes them easier to field in an AR-10 sized weapon. Give them soft hollow points and let them rain on the battlefield. Anything out to 500 yards should be dead.Why not just issue the .458 AR15? Wouldn't that be more than enough? Or is it not enough velocity for long range?

[JaxChris]

I really have no knowledge on the .458 SOCOM round, nor its effectiveness or intended purposes. =(

[Satan_3pc]

Supposedly it's what some special forces teams take along with them for one shot kills.